Curse

Shadis · Apr 21, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

First of all, to the people that are saying "lol if itz too hard for u just dont play and stop whining" that isn't what these topics are about really. Try reading the posts before posting your copy/paste elitist response next time.

People are disappointed because we were lead to believe that this Hard Mode would be well thought out, with monster skill bars that worked together within the mobs, a slight power boost and improved AI. What did we get? Slap some elites into their normal bars, give them permanent faster attack, faster casting and a run speed boost, then direct them to spike your softies to hell right off the bat.

What is challenging about being party wiped in one shot by a Searing Flames using boss Djinn?

How is that "challenge"? As stated before, it's a cop-out, nothing more. I mean I could load a Starcraft WorldEdit Map and place 200 enemy units around your starting Command Center. Is that challenge or cheapness?

I guess some of us were just hoping for a lot more than this cheap "challenge" we were presented with. You don't need "tactics" and this setup really doesn't rely on your individual skill as it was advertised. Unless you think tactics is tip-toeing from mob to mob and unloading on them.

Nemo the Capitalist · Apr 21, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

its supposed to be hard for a reason ..otherwise go to normal mode i fu cnat hack it

Raxxman · Apr 21, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

my biggest gripe is similar to Racthoh

the only reason the first mission is so hard for me is because Dunkoro just stands infront of the grawl and lets them smack the crap outta him. It's utterly frustrating to watch the retarded AI make the game so hard.

Swift Thief · Apr 21, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

I am very disappointed they didn't learn from the mistakes in DOA.

Hard mode is not even close to DoA. Unless you mean DoA + hard mode. Now you all need to stop complaining, feel grateful that ANet gave us hard mode. If you don't like hard mode, you don't have yo try it, because no one is forcing you. Now stop complaining.

Hello Kitty · Apr 21, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I really like Hard Mode how it is now. All of my guildies were having a blast in Aurora Glade last night. That mission is crazy in the PvP-like section.

ShadowsRequiem · Apr 21, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Hard-mode pisses me off.....

I mean i'd understand non max dmg weapons outside kamadan and stuff on the first island....

But having lvl 24-28 monsters dropping like 13-18 dmg swords and shit is terrible.

Eldred · Apr 21, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris De Pig

The whole concept of 'Hard Mode' is a great one, and I agree that it should be hard, and like to think I don't just come accross as one of the 'Z0mg hard mode is 2 hrd' whiners.

However, Anet created a set of rules for the game. Rules such as a finite energy pool based on class, along with skill activation times, energy costs and recharge rates.

I accept this and enjoy playing within this environment. I further accept that in 'Hard Mode' monsters get double attack speed, double cast speed and double movement speed. Personally I think this is ultimate cheese on the part of Anet and is basically a way of them saying 'we can't possibly make the game harder other than by these ultra-cheese buffs'. In essence, these three things say in giant capital letters 'We failed to make the game hard normally'.

Now, onto this particular rant. As previously mentioned, a set of rules exist that govern the game. In hard mode there are some modifications such as halved casting times etc. This is all fine, but when it really grates is when these rules are IGNORED by monsters.

For example, you cast 'Diversion' on a non-boss creature that is spamming 'Holy Wrath' - this should mean that the next time they cast that spell it's unavailable to them for ~40 seconds, heck, even 20s if they have 'half hex duration'. What you do not expect to see is them casting the very same spell at the same rate AFTER they've been diverted. I mean, come on, you want to encourage tactical play and balanced teams with intelligently thought out skill bars etc. But to make the monsters just ignore the effects of a skill that was taken for a specific reason...

Here's an idea, why don't Anet actually post the attribute points, health points, energy pool and skill bars of some of the monsters?

Halving cast times is pure cheese, but should be great. Yes interrupts are much harder, but if you were casting constantly at that speed your energy pool would be gone in ~30s.

Hard mode is hard, and enjoyable in the main, it's just little things like skills not working that take out the fun.

It's already been mentioned that Grawl Ulodytes can sit spamming 'Heal Area' at a ridiculous rate - and yet they never run out of energy. Heal Area is a 10 energy skill, which verges on the expensive side for a monk with a max pool of what, about 50 energy? Why do monsters ignore recharge times and skill costs?

Has anyone managed to succesfully e-deny a monster? I set up a Mesmer hero with lots of e-denial/removal skills. He must have stripped well over 100 energy from a non-boss hard mode monster, and it was still spamming away at it's 10 energy skills.

C'mon, let's set up a framework of rules that apply to EVERYONE, players and monsters alike. Want to halve casting times and recharge times, that's fine PROVIDED THEY ARE ACTUALLY HALVED and not just ignored.

BdP

I totally agree with you infact i used a ranger hero with debaliting shot and well my self with some energy lowering stuff and yeah i got pissed cause well monsters seem to have infinite energy and even in normal mode they always spawn the same skills or spells doesnt matter if you distrupt them or use alot of energy draining skills hey got an idea check if you would use shackles and mind wrack if mind wrack doesnt acitvates you know that monster are cheating

Well i just tried it with my ranger/mesmer at beetlrun on normal mode on some merge's and well they did recive dmg after a time but it was like after 4 spawns of spirit shackles so maybe all monsters have like dunno +10 energy recharging aldo these were only lvl 14

Patrick Smit · Apr 21, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

Noob+PvE that's actually worth playing = whine

Simple formula, but covers a wide area.
If you can't do hardmode, please don't whine about it. Play tetris or something.

For the first time, PvE is actually worth a challenge! w00t go Anet!

Besides, It's still not that hard. I've done quite a variety of missions yesterday, including Thunderheadkeep, Dragon's Lair, Nolani Academy, Frost Gate, Hell's Precipice. All with bonus.

I have to admit, it took us a few tries to figure out proper builds to get through the missions properly, but once you get the hang of it, it's just a minor challenge which is actually fun to play!

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

Hard mode is not even close to DoA. Unless you mean DoA + hard mode. Now you all need to stop complaining, feel grateful that ANet gave us hard mode. If you don't like hard mode, you don't have yo try it, because no one is forcing you. Now stop complaining.

Im sorry, but you didn't get the point of the OP (and others), I fully agree with him, and others that support this statement and maybe even add arguments.

Hard would mean challenging in terms of strategic play (kiting, skill use, positioning, etc) Hard should not mean, damage output times 2 and how to survive the next three hits without reverting to "gimmick" builds (i say frost) or highly Unbalanced and single strategy builds (i say symbiosis tanking bond bip shite). It should more resemble PvP which is really challenging in terms of what diversity you can encounter and how your team coops with that, instead of simply multiply stats by 2. Gimmicks are not strategic, they are just gimmicks and in hard mode a gimmick frost build should be countered by a warrior or two immeadiately destroying the essential spirits. Thats what i would call hard mode. This is just gimmick mode.

Improvavel · Apr 21, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Its the same old same old.

High level mobs were trains. Stay in the track and die. Move out of the track and the mobs lose.

They just gave the train a new more powerfull engine and a more resilient armor plating.

Once players get the hang of it, Hard Mode = slower mod.

Maybe next they will create the Ultimate Hard mod, and give mobs lvl 100 with 10k hp, armor 1k and some 100 pipes of regen.

PPl would take 1 hour to kill that monster. Maybe thats hard...

I agree. Boreas Seabed was one of the most interesting missions. Uncoordinated teams of players just would go down fast, because the opponent team played as a team.

I wanted more of that. Coordiated mobs of monsters, with 2/3 professions per monster, that punished uncoordinated teams and non-balanced teams.

This way searing flames might be less effective overall, but still beats bringing a mesmer in the partie, more than ever actually. If before 1 good mesmer could improve the overall efficiency, instead of a 3rd nuker, now its better to bring that 3rd copy of meteor shower and searing flames.

Blame the Monks · Apr 21, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

feel grateful that ANet gave us hard mode. If you don't like hard mode, you don't have yo try it, because no one is forcing you. Now stop complaining.

That's the thing -- I'm not trying it because it is just computer cheating + grind. My post was to help anet figure out why they are losing customers and goodwill for gw2 -- I want games based on skill, not grind.

Grammar · Apr 21, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

This thread is confusing. We need to start summing some things up here.

Exactly what cheats do monsters in hard mode use, and do all of them use it or just some?

No more arguing, just facts/observations in an effort to answer the above question.

Lutae · Apr 21, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Monsters have innate IAS, innate speed boosts, and innate fast casting for sure.

Oh, and heroes that were happily kiting well in normal mode now stand there and let the monsters try out their increased attack speed on them, even if they are set of "guard" or "avoid combat" mode.

Takeko Nakano · Apr 21, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Shadis makes a good point. It isn't that this is difficult, more that it appears a simple answer has been provided to address an issue of how to make the game more challenging. You can make a game more difficult without making it horribly unbalanced in particular areas.

Mercury Angel · Apr 21, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I thought this thread might be a bit different at first, but looking at it, it either has always been, or changed course into, the exact same thing as this thread. There is no content in this thread that isn't being discussed there, so please shift the discussion that way.

Unfortunately, thread merger is not viable at this time, as it causes the forum to crash, so if you wish to, you must repost your content manually in that thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.